Harriet Jones, Prime Minister (femalequixote) wrote in polly_unlimited,
Harriet Jones, Prime Minister
femalequixote
polly_unlimited

Right.

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I reckon France will have another Referendum, in which they will be paid to vote Yes.

But ideally I'd like to see the constitution abandoned and the EU allowed to evolve naturally through (drum roll please) functionalism!!
this i have really mixed up feelings about this vote. on the one hand im dissappointed that even france seems to be saying no to europe but on the other hand i wouldnt vote for this constitution....i think. see this is why the refurendum should have three answer: no not yes no maybe but yes no, cause im not in favour of a european community and no, cause i think this is a really shitely written constitution. that way we wouldnt get all the antieuro nationlists (especially in this country) highjacking the damn result.

also the confusion is far to damn confusing and, lets face it, aint even a constitution in the traditional sense (ie like the american) instead it is a mad amalgamation (is that the right word) of just about every treaty we already agree on.

as it is im having difficulty seeing exactly what difference the ratification of this constitution would actually have.

im hoping however that european ministers see this as a kick up the arse to short brussels and strasbourg out (corruption first please) and make it seem something more tangible to the public. then again, i think that is applicable to most political institutions
I broadly agree with you, as far as that the introduction of this document is probably not the most useful thing for Europe at the moment. Even so...

even france seems to be saying no to europe
I wonder if the French arre saying No to Europe or, like you and me, just feel that it's not the right time for this constituion?

it is a mad amalgamation (is that the right word) of just about every treaty we already agree on.
Isn't that kinda the idea? To set out what we agree on in one document. Which is the definition of a constitution. In fact, a lot of what is in the EU con, especially about dignity, human rights and citizenship is the same as what is in the US one (but without the right to bear arms. Thank god.)

As for not understanding it, I will totally lend you my pamphlet on the EU constitution, as produced by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. It won the Plain Language Commission Award for Clear English Standard. Which has to be a rarity in the murky world EU-related documents...
I wonder if the French arre saying No to Europe or, like you and me, just feel that it's not the right time for this constituion?
see thats what annoys me. admittedly it could get out of hand but a yes/no refurendum tells us nothing

Isn't that kinda the idea? To set out what we agree on in one document. Which is the definition of a constitution. In fact, a lot of what is in the EU con, especially about dignity, human rights and citizenship is the same as what is in the US one
fine but can you really outline economics in something as consistent as a constitution? as the guy on question time highlighted, at least the american constituion has 36 (?) aluses and can be read over two pages instead of some fat wallop of a book in which for every clause there like another 6 sub clauses. admittedly this is probably an ideoligical point but i cant see anybody holding up a banner saying- 'as in line with my rights outkline in clause 52 sub section e part iii i.....' know what i mean? on a more practial point, a la eddie izzard (hehe- i get to quote izzard in a serious politics discussion, yay!), who has actually read the whole thing? tony blair? yea i doubt it

As for not understanding it, I will totally lend you my pamphlet on the EU constitution, as produced by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. It won the Plain Language Commission Award for Clear English Standard. Which has to be a rarity in the murky world EU-related documents...
excellent! and since it seems so unbelieveable (gol) i really will hold you to that! ;>
Ok, I hear what you're saying about the length of the thing. And I agree, it's far too long.

But this constitution isn't like a state constitution, it's a document for a community that's based on economic unity and common practice. Don't forget that the single market is what the whole shebang is based on.

No, maybe Tony hasn't read the whole thing. That is what the civil service is for.
alright so if i concede on the state part and agree its an economic treaty we then get to the issue that the greens (well the british ones) withdrew on. this whole it should be rights and sustainability (and care possibly?) that is at the centre of the constitution rather than economics. what dya think. are they missing the point? being to idealised? or are they right, if were going to lay are common values down then can we choose the right values please....?
*giggles* Being anti-euro isnt 'Nationalist' - its just being anti-euro. Being anti-EU isnt the same as being anti-European. I'm overwhelmed with warm fuzzy feelings towards both the French and Dutch and for that matter the Germans right now (not that they will have the right to a referendum - ironic that a law originally intended as a bulwark against totalitarianism should be used to ram through totalitarian legislation...) and no doubt you'd call me one of those 'nationalist little englanders' or something of the sort.

The EU doesnt work. It never has worked. It never will work. Free trade is all it should be for, nothing else.

Being anti-euro isnt 'Nationalist' - its just being anti-euro. Being anti-EU isnt the same as being anti-European

your totally right, but that still supports me point that a referendum doesn't explain whats going on it just say yes or no. however, i think your wrong in saying it can never work. it can work just as well as any other politcal system (if we claim they truly work) and especially as, lets face it, it aint going to go away, we should make our constitition as good as possible, yay, nay?